7/6/2023 0 Comments Utopias for realistsHe doesn’t show all the struggles and the fights, and the battles for power that went on. I would say he has a more sanitized view of history. So where do you and Pinker differ? Rutger Bregman This is a very Steven Pinker-ish argument, but where he uses that history to push us to value the system we have, you use it to argue for a radical departure of the system we have. For roughly 99 percent of the world’s history, 99 percent of humanity was poor, hungry, dirty, afraid, stupid, sick and ugly.” In Utopia for Realists, you write, “in the past, everything was worse. A partial transcript, edited for length and clarity, follows. You can listen to our full conversation by subscribing to The Ezra Klein Show wherever you get your podcasts, or streaming it below.
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